```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F0v4OawRtg6HRDNDAebul%2F1a2e43a5-fd70-481f-a36d-75ae8f92dbca.png?alt=media&token=2a7c51f2-3691-4da2-8b08-f0eb400dc6ce","id":"1a2e43a5-fd70-481f-a36d-75ae8f92dbca","width":1800,"height":1200,"filename":"AMIE_PRESS_PHOTO.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

One of our favorite parts of building read.cv is meeting incredible builders that we look up to from around the world. One such person is [Dennis Müller](https://read.cv/dmx), founder at [Amie](https://amie.so). We were able to catch up and have a quick conversation with him about his inspirations, team building, and [Amie](https://amie.so).

---

### **Before chatting I assumed you had a design background, but you have a long history of product strategy, management, and development. Can you tell us a bit about your background and where your interest in design stems from?**

Hah, I appreciate when people notice that. I’ve always loved designs, I guess my first “designs” were ICQ themes back in the days. Then I modded Pokemon Yellow and changed up the map and dialogs.

Photography was the first thing I took more serious. My problem was always that I whole-y overestimated the creative process of professionals. “They would never do it like this” was on my mind. Now I’ve learned, yes they do the exact same ha.

I would’ve never even considered to call myself a designer. Only recently felt like “What else would I need to do than design something from scratch across brand and product?”, and felt confident.

### **Outside of software, where do you draw inspiration from? What are some of your favorite physical and digital products?**

I love all pretty or astonishingly handy things.

Eg products like Tangle Teezer (hair brush), Invisibobble (hair band) or OXO (kitchen utensils).

All of those solve a specific problem so well, they’ve shaped an entire industry.

Otherwise I love the all-time greats like: LAMY (affordable pens), Rimowa (the iconic suitcases) or Leica (highest quality analogue cameras).

On the digital side: Pinterest has a distinct design, [are.na](http://are.na/) is amazing for brand inspo, Noto is an amazing indie app (funnily designed+built by a Pinterest employee).

The one app I wish would be designed better: Apple Health. And an impressive recent release is Duolingo Math, it’s so fun to use.

### **My first introduction to Amie was the [viral marketing site](https://amie.so) you and your team built. I can’t think of another site that has that much detail packed into it. Can you tell us a bit about the process of creating something like that and the team behind it?**

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F0v4OawRtg6HRDNDAebul%2Fd6393bcc-230c-40bc-9a7b-39f5853df719.mp4?alt=media&token=9d84045a-95e8-433c-b293-8126efd05052","id":"d6393bcc-230c-40bc-9a7b-39f5853df719","width":2090,"height":1440,"filename":"amie-safari-2.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"amie.so","border":true}]}
```

We built this site together with [Krijn Rijshouwer](https://www.krijnrijshouwer.com/). He squeezed it between other projects. For many months we were just bouncing around concepts and prototypes.

Then got serious around 3 weeks before the announcement.

We could’ve done it within 1 full-time month I guess. The result wouldn’t have been as fun though.

A lot of ideas came through sitting on some ideas for a while.

The stack is super simple with Next.js, React and SCSS.

I still love Krijn for finessing the keynote video. It’s hosted on YouTube, but no one would ever know because we applied hack on hack to modify the experience way past what they allow.

### **You’ve talked about hiring a team made up of “undiscovered awesome people”, which I love and believe in as well. What are some signs you look for in candidates that show they will be a good collaborator?**

This whole topic is what I think about the most. And still only make small improvements.

The most reliable sign is side projects. Interestingly: very few people working at “hot companies” have something to show. Often they are unable to send over even a small repository.

So this kinda biases everything towards unproven people. Which may be the reason they build side projects—to prove themselves.

An easier thing is the initial email. We don’t have an application form, everyone has to send an email with their data to me.

Looking back: eg Ivo who joined us also sent a very good initial email.

Another one is asking “Teach me about your favorite topic”. No question levels the playing field more. (credit goes to the Google founders who famously asked this).

High profile candidates may bore you, and a kid out of a country without tech companies teaches you something you never thought about.

### **Who is someone you look up to who has inspired your entrepreneurial journey?**

There’s no one person that inspired me entrepreneurially. Dieter Rams is a big inspiration design-wise. The old Zenly design made me really happy and was a big reference.

Product-wise I’m mainly inspired by people who vertically integrate, so take adjacent products and do it all themselves. Eg. Apple, Rippling, Tesla.

I was super moved by Jeff Bezos’ last shareholder letter. Especially: “What I’m really asking you to do is to embrace and be realistic about how much energy it takes to maintain that distinctiveness. The world wants you to be typical – in a thousand ways, it pulls at you. Don’t let it happen. You have to pay a price for your distinctiveness, and it’s worth it.”

Interview with Dennis Müller

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F25VBgxRmr7D7nRvz9rd8%2Fa0d8030b-5ab7-43ac-aabf-e8c17d682fa6.png?alt=media&token=560f00ed-3d4c-4b83-83f7-5eb6e38e7ad4","id":"a0d8030b-5ab7-43ac-aabf-e8c17d682fa6","width":2400,"height":1260,"filename":"The Breakfast OG.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

Today we're chatting with [Lisa Oreshkina](https://read.cv/eothinks) and Eteri Saneblidze, founders of [The Breakfast App](https://thebreakfast.app/). If you're not already familiar, The Breakfast App is a new app for meeting other creative people over, well, breakfast. It's not dating, not networking, just breakfast. They've recently launched in San Francisco, and if you'd like to try it out you can use the code `RDCV` for a nice little discount. In the interview we chat about their background, how the pair met, and what it was like founding a startup for meeting IRL during a pandemic.

---

### **Hey Lisa and Eteri! Who are you and where in the world are you right now?**

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F25VBgxRmr7D7nRvz9rd8%2F69485b8d-7f9f-4d68-9fe8-b6ce374f0404.jpg?alt=media&token=ba8e83bf-76e9-4def-a3fd-86acb6f0fb19","id":"69485b8d-7f9f-4d68-9fe8-b6ce374f0404","width":2400,"height":1600,"filename":"003.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F25VBgxRmr7D7nRvz9rd8%2F611e3c5b-3839-458c-8500-8e136c75c748.jpg?alt=media&token=67fac770-ea36-4c6a-8326-c0322ab56021","id":"611e3c5b-3839-458c-8500-8e136c75c748","width":2400,"height":1600,"filename":"019.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F25VBgxRmr7D7nRvz9rd8%2F00dcaa3b-852e-4382-b132-c219eb0ee1bd.jpg?alt=media&token=25f66ba9-0835-4aba-8824-5bc27b2cb635","id":"00dcaa3b-852e-4382-b132-c219eb0ee1bd","width":2400,"height":1600,"filename":"047.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

Hey! We are the founders of [The Breakfast](https://thebreakfast.app/) — an app for meeting and talking with awesome creatives over breakfast. We’re talking to you from Lisbon, Portugal, where we are based.

Eteri has been an entrepreneurial soul and a brand visionary since her early twenties. She previously co-founded the first Ukrainian online store of design-forward gifts and a direct-to-consumer linen bedding brand called [Sea Me.](https://seamelinen.com/)

[Lisa](https://read.cv/eothinks) is an information and product designer who has worked with and co-founded several companies in various spaces: from business sociometry SaaS to social QA platforms.

### **What is the story behind how you two met, and how did it eventually lead to the creation of the Breakfast App?**

We met in Lisbon back in 2015 when the startups we were working on at that time were selected for an acceleration program called Lisbon Challenge. Eteri came from Ukraine and Lisa from Russia, a fact that would later come to play its role in our story.

In the following years, we travelled across Europe and the US, always looking out for new people to meet. It felt very natural: meeting a local can be a great introduction to a new city, and hanging out with creatives is the perfect way to share your ideas, learn new things, and discover new opportunities. Overall, we enjoyed the feeling of being connected to the world by having someone we could talk to in basically any city around the globe. But that was just our own lifestyle.

It all clicked one day when we were discussing how people form and transfer trust to each other when making professional introductions and connections. It was a late night in a fancy bar in Odesa, Ukraine. Eteri argued that there is no recipe for a good match, it’s a matter of regularly meeting and talking to people until you find “your people.” The only missing part was that there needed to be some common activity to make it easy for two people to gather, without a specific romantic or professional agenda. And that’s when Lisa said: ”breakfast.”

It took us an hour to draft the whole app in a notebook. And about a year to finally release it to the public, exactly 1.5 months before the global pandemic started.

### **Due to the pandemic, all sorts of in-person social events had to be held virtually. Based on your experiences with both offline and online experiences since then, have you noticed a change in the way we meet and interact with other people?**

Yes! The pandemic showed us that seemingly comfortable and convenient things can bring us to a rather miserable place. Zoom meetings are amazing when what you need is information. But when you are looking for a connection, for energy, for life, there’s nothing that can replace an IRL conversation. Humans are wired to interact in the physical world — it makes us happier, healthier, and more fulfilled.

We all know that from our personal experience of keeping ourselves isolated in our homes. But knowing it is not enough, we need to implement connection as a practice in our calendars, just like we do with the gym or meditation.

### **The choices you’ve made in crafting the Breakfast App, down to the invite system and the language you use, all feel very intentional. Something I find especially interesting is the idea of a “chance” - could you explain why you came up with the concept and how it reflects the types of connections you hope to cultivate?**

Totally! Thanks for mentioning that!

A chance is The Breakfast’s alternative to a “match“. Because we don’t believe in matches.

Existing social apps have created this transactional attitude between people, where we swipe and browse numerous profiles looking for a match that will ideally fit our filters, both on the app and in our minds. Even though that was fun in the beginning, it has started to feel exhausting and, frankly, miserable.

At The Breakfast, instead of endless scrolling and swiping, you get only one chance per day.

A chance is serendipitous and playful. You can take it, you can pass it on. And it can be anything: you might hear a random story that feels supportive to you at this stage of life, or you might find a friend or a job connection. You can fall in love, come up with a start-up idea, or just learn something new.

But if you think about it, all major shifts in life happen when you meet and talk to new people, oftentimes by chance. The Breakfast is a space for more of these chances to happen.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2F25VBgxRmr7D7nRvz9rd8%2F872f7e96-f0c3-4220-b633-e052b7569742.mp4?alt=media&token=1b97ea2d-9158-4a74-b42a-9e13bb01ad65","id":"872f7e96-f0c3-4220-b633-e052b7569742","width":1270,"height":1270,"filename":"F_Brioche_square_shadow_light.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

### **You’ve done a lot of work to celebrate other creatives, such as partnering with companies, hosting [interviews](https://thebreakfast.app/episodes) and [talks](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu6RFAoN067/), and curating a [directory](https://thebreakfast.app/directory). Has your involvement in these communities shaped your perception of what the Breakfast App might be and how it might evolve over time?**

Yes, we try to do a lot because we love connecting with inspiring people and projects in lots of different ways. And definitely, our vision evolves as we continue to be in conversation with our members and partners.

For instance, we came up with the term “modern creatives” because it’s an identity that is much more than just a profession, it’s a lifestyle. Being a modern creative means participating in multiple creative projects, shifting domains, working remotely, easily moving from one new city to another, and being curious to know what other people are doing with their lives and energy.

We are the only app that is optimized for real-life connection, so we see interest from a variety of communities and brands: co-working and co-living spaces, hotels, media, tools, self-development and professional groups. You can already see some of these companies in our [Directory,](https://thebreakfast.app/directory) but creating even more value for their communities using our technology is something we are working on at the moment.

### **In the past, you've posted several heartwarming “breakfast stories” about chance meetings turning into a little something more. Could you share any other encounters (personal or not) from the app that have stuck with you recently?**

Oh yes! Our team was so touched to receive an email from our members who got married after meeting on The Breakfast in Kyiv.

Another story we love is from an art director in his early thirties who had breakfast with a cancer researcher in her 50s. He told us he met his soulmate that morning.

A recent one is about a member who was choosing between moving to Istanbul or Lisbon. He ended up deciding on Lisbon — only because The Breakfast is not yet launched in Istanbul!

Interestingly, we started to receive more feedback from people who identify as introverts, because they feel much more comfortable in a 1-on-1 conversation rather than in crowded small-talk-centered meetups.

We love these stories and look forward to receiving more as our community continues to expand!

Interview with Lisa Oreshkina and Eteri Saneblidze

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2F55f4cafd-7c0f-4b7b-a754-9b146e409e86.jpg?alt=media&token=279f2af9-4647-441b-8262-ed699eed8a5d","id":"55f4cafd-7c0f-4b7b-a754-9b146e409e86","width":2560,"height":2560,"filename":"simon-full.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

We have been huge fans of Amsterdam based designer [Simon Riisnæs Dagfinrud](https://read.cv/srd)'s work for quite some time now, so it was only natural for us to invite him to create a template for [Read.cv Sites](https://read.cv/sites/about). Today Simon is sharing his wonderfully brutal template named after his hometown in Norway, [Ørsta](https://read.cv/sites/templates/bcyp2hlzo). We also took this as a chance to ask him some questions about his background, multidisciplinary design practice, and opening a physical studio space in Amsterdam-Noord.

---

### **Hey Simon! Where in the world are you writing us from right now?**

Hei! As I’m typing this I’m sitting in my [new studio](https://noko.st/) in Amsterdam, which my partner and I opened just a few weeks back. Amsterdam’s been my home for the past four years, having moved here from Oslo and my hometown in Western Norway.

### **Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you first got into design?**

I’ve very much been into “creating things” for as long as I can remember, so my path into design probably started with trying to invent some sort of gadget using stuff I’d find around the house as a kid.

As I got older I eventually got my hands on software like Photoshop and GeoCities, and (as I’m writing this I’m realizing) in a sort of boring way, I never looked back.

Getting a bit closer to current day, I very prematurely started my own little agency along with some friends when I’d just turned 18, after having done some design jobs here and there. In hindsight I think this offered a lot of great experiences both on the creative side and the business side. Since then I’ve been jumping back and forth between disciplines before I finally landed on a more combined designer-developer role at WeTransfer. About a year ago I quit my job there and started running my own little studio, [noko](https://noko.st/)!

### **Your practice spans many different design disciplines — graphic, interaction, brand, product, data viz, motion — and seems to seamlessly fuse them together in a way that feels both brand new yet coherent and pragmatic. How do you think about these different disciplines when it comes to your work, and is making a distinction between these practices important?**

First of all – thank you!!

My work definitely tends to span multiple disciplines – I think partly because I’m probably just naturally curious and find all of them interesting, and partly because I do actively try to venture outside of my natural habitat(s).

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2F209d0085-854b-4a0a-ad84-f6e388f0f48e.mp4?alt=media&token=ea189303-149a-41a1-8e09-f3cd6c45866b","id":"209d0085-854b-4a0a-ad84-f6e388f0f48e","width":1200,"height":1500,"filename":"all-posters.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

Without getting overly philosophical, I think there’s something inherently childish and exploratory about creativity: if you only ever color inside the boxes, you’ll only make boring stuff, sort of. Like painters breaking the rules of perspective or composition, there’s something cool about knowing digital conventions and when to break them, or getting design rationale from somewhere else entirely.

For me, making distinctions between disciplines is more about logistics. Master of many trades, jack of some. Putting people in boxes (or departments) would be more helpful if it didn’t also make people assume you can’t do two (highly related) things at once.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2F696eeeec-ed97-4770-9317-21fe61f2142b.mp4?alt=media&token=a4bb190d-c5bd-4ffd-950c-f8da819961a2","id":"696eeeec-ed97-4770-9317-21fe61f2142b","width":1600,"height":1200,"filename":"b764a72c-8281-4c1a-8a8a-ccab9a76575e.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"Website for House Captain","border":false}]}
```

### **On your [studio website](https://noko.st/) you write “the design & tech industry is mostly completely ignorant of its impact on language and culture, and has been for too long. [noko](https://noko.st/) is a response to this.” Can you expand on your personal experience with this and how it motivated you to start a studio practice?**

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2F5606a187-650c-4f8b-87de-cd6bfbc14707.mp4?alt=media&token=24b86d4e-52b9-47cd-ba24-d8fb731ec853","id":"5606a187-650c-4f8b-87de-cd6bfbc14707","width":1080,"height":1080,"filename":"938a8f88-e0ef-4be2-b0bb-52236dea0c6a.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

Very attentive questions, I love it! There’s a few bits to cover and I know I can go on and on about this subject, so I’ll try my best to keep this one short.

Essentially, I think culture might be the most basic natural occurrence of ‘identity’, and language is a sort of concretized part of it – spoken and written, but also visual and coded. After all, it’s all about systems for communication. Often with very similar syntax, just in different forms. There’s this (slightly cliché) quote that “a language is a dialect with an army” which I really love because it very succinctly points out culture’s role in seemingly important distinctions we establish, and then take for granted. Language shapes thought.

As for my personal connection to it, there’s this whole language situation back home in Norway where I’m a minority language user which definitely makes me more interested in language in general. Or more likely to spot when something’s off – like when a seemingly local brand uses a language that literally just doesn’t represent (or effectively reaches) its target audience. Or the other way around, when a bigger brand appropriates local culture.

After coming into the design industry and having observed it for a couple of years, that [noko](https://noko.st/) ‘manifest’ rant on the website was more or less just my natural reaction after seeing yet another bad example.

The industry carries a lot of the responsibility in getting these things right, but unfortunately really lacks focus on culture and language during the design process. And on the consequences thereof on people it designs stuff for. Generally leading to worse design, and sometimes even being directly harmful.

Didn’t quite succeed in keeping it short, but – with all this in mind I started [noko](https://noko.st/) with the aim of doing things a bit differently. Nowadays I feel like the studio is less centred on this in some projects, but it’s still at the heart of what I’m trying to do with [noko](https://noko.st/). The design process starts with language.

### **You recently opened a physical studio space in Amsterdam-Noord that looks amazing. Can you tell us a bit about the challenges you faced opening a physical space, and what your aspirations are for the space moving forward?**

I did! I felt like I needed a space with potential for exploring more, so I left the shared space I was working from in the city centre and then my partner and I started looking for options a bit closer to where we live (in Noord). Dubbed [noko.space](https://noko.st/) because I love a good, concrete domain!

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2Fb8075444-ae6b-408a-9f67-cdaa2fe5189e.mp4?alt=media&token=5e54d96f-6611-4b96-abb1-299813134f26","id":"b8075444-ae6b-408a-9f67-cdaa2fe5189e","width":1500,"height":1500,"filename":"studio-light_spinner.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"noko.space","border":false}]}
```

It’s definitely been a bit of a journey – from getting the keys in the first place, to finally being able to take on the real challenge of turning it into a lovely workspace. Literally not even the electricity worked when we got here, so there were some real hurdles. It’s all been very rewarding though and (in the spirit of blending disciplines) fun to work with a very different format and output than I’m used to.

Moving forward we’re trying to avoid over-designing things, so we’re intentionally taking it a bit slow and seeing where that gets us. We’ve opened the space for a few collaborators to come and work with us, and it’s already a really nice, creative sphere. The aspiration overall is to make a very functional space with lots of tools for exploring creativity across formats, so we’ve already got a pen plotter and heat press in place. More to come!

### **I love the [Ørsta template](https://read.cv/sites/templates/bcyp2hlzo) you created for [Read.cv](http://read.cv/). Can you tell us a bit about the template (maybe design process or who it’s for), and maybe some ideas that had to get thrown out while working on it?**

I figured I’d follow the location-based naming of templates, so I tried to let my hometown inspire me. Turns out that means a pretty brutal, but very colorful layout. Besides, there’s no better color combination than orange and green, right? :—)

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2Fe317b765-4234-4a55-8e4a-e9f77a7cb214.mp4?alt=media&token=bcb971bb-dd30-4747-8035-5be0af745289","id":"e317b765-4234-4a55-8e4a-e9f77a7cb214","width":1500,"height":1500,"filename":"6_SCREENCAPS-FASTER.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"Ørsta template by Simon Riinæs Dagfinrud","border":false}]}
```

Creating a template like this is a pretty intriguing brief – there’s a set of very defined constraints, like using the [Read.cv](http://Read.cv) profile data, but otherwise it’s completely open. So to me it introduces the question of how people could navigate and explore that content.

I explored a few ideas that were more abstract, visually, like shoving all the content into one viewport and putting a sort of sitemap at the bottom where you’d, like, hover “Work Experience” and it’d draw literal lines to work experience items on the screen, or highlight them in some way.

Eventually though I found it most compelling to zoom in on the profile structure and hierarchy, so I ended up making a nav-meets-map that dynamically resizes based on what’s currently on the screen, and really categorizing the profile content with some sticky scroll.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FK84GCYa7zHhX5T0TCcAr%2F115872f6-ed29-42d7-a010-0db0fce2f9c5.mp4?alt=media&token=3cf9a7e6-fe8d-4021-9b3f-eb58d4217db2","id":"115872f6-ed29-42d7-a010-0db0fce2f9c5","width":1500,"height":1500,"filename":"abbie-short.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

I love letting the typography do most of the work, because it allows the site to take on all these different shapes based on the content without much noise. So I went with this quite brutal layout where the hovered sections are highlighted instead of adding much space between them.

It was a really fun one. Thanks for having me!!

### **What advice would you have for younger designers who want to create the type of work that you do?**

I think I’d have to highlight the value of jumping into things without the required experience, haha. A pretty full-on “easier said than done” type of advice, but the person ending up with the job is often not the most qualified. So if worst case that’s me every now and then, then that seems fair too.

Language shapes thought – and how you think about yourself shapes what you can do. Provided you have access to a computer, you can start learning how to code, make music, create things in 3D, etc. With risk of sounding a bit self-help guru-esque, I used to think I couldn’t properly code for many years and I think it’s bizarre now that code is the medium I usually feel the most confident in.

A leaving thought: you don’t actually have to pick one discipline, you can combine them :—)

---

You can find Simon on [Read.cv](https://read.cv/srd) or his [personal website](https://xn--smon-vpa.com/), and [install his template Ørsta here](https://read.cv/sites/templates/bcyp2hlzo).

Interview with Simon Riisnæs Dagfinrud

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F11a22cbb-44c7-48bb-bdff-9e6607e762bb.png?alt=media&token=c6975f94-c208-44d9-a33b-be63204ab997","id":"11a22cbb-44c7-48bb-bdff-9e6607e762bb","width":2400,"height":1260,"filename":"retro-banner.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

While most social media incumbents have pivoted into focusing on creators and entertainment, [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) is a beautiful new photo sharing app with a focus on sharing with close friends and family. The experience is a breath of fresh air and our team has been loving it, so we had to take this as an opportunity to sit down with the [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) founders [Nathan Sharp](https://read.cv/nsharp) and [Ryan Olson](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) to learn more about their inspiration for the app and where it's going.

---

### **Hey [Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp) & [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk), who are you and where are you in the world right now?**

We’re old teammates from Instagram, where we met when we started to work together on the project that eventually shipped as Instagram Stories. [Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp) led product and [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) led iOS engineering on IG Stories. We’d always wanted to start our own company together one day, and we finally left Meta in May 2022 to make that happen.

Right now, we’re working remotely from Boston & Aspen. [Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp)’s based in SF, but he visits Boston every summer for a few weeks so his three girls (ages 6, 4, and 2) can hang with their grandparents. [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) is in Aspen, where he moved during the pandemic to be closer to family and the outdoors.

### **Can you tell us a bit about how you got into building products and what lead you to focusing on consumer social?**

**[Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp):** I had been interested in architecture, and later policy, as ways to create systems that encourage interactions that bring out the best in people. But social software became so much more appealing because you can build and understand impact in days versus years or even decades in architecture and policy.

**[Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk):** My first real exposure to building apps was an iOS internship at the news app Flipboard. It was an incredible group of people to learn from and really instilled an appreciation for design details and craft. I found many of the same values at Instagram along with very large and growing community. Consumer social is wild because you can be a team of a handful of people that builds a product that millions or even billions of people get to enjoy and use. It is still one of my favorite experiences to see friends, family, and strangers using things I’ve made out in the wild.

### **Can you share the origin story of the name Lone Palm Labs?**

Ha - it’s named after our favorite bar in the Mission in San Francisco. Back in 2016, when we both lived in SF, [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) and I used to meet up at Lone Palm with a bunch of other colleagues from Instagram. That’s where we used to dream up different approaches to problems in consumer social, so we thought it was fitting as the name for our parent company. We were so relieved to find that it was still there after Covid shut down so many businesses, and we still make a point to visit when we’re back together in SF.

Even though we’re all in on [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) for now, we have these grand ambitions of taking our product approach to other spaces, so we wanted to maintain this distinction between Lone Palm Labs as the parent company and [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) as our first product.

### **Who is the team behind [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) and what is your companies philosophy around building a founding team?**

The full time team behind [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) today is deliberately small: [Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp) and [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) as co-founders, Peter Cottle on backend engineering, and [Sean Leach](https://read.cv/sean) on design. You sometimes hear that a team built something great ***despite*** being small - we think that teams most often build great things ***because*** they’re small (with strong talent, passion, and chemistry, of course). So our hiring approach thus far is hiring only people that are so talented they could have been co-founders in another sequence of events. We’re frugal as a company, but we have this principle of spending up on the things that matter, and best-in-class compensation for super talented people is one of those things that matters. So staying small makes sense there, too.

### **Consumer startups are often known for going through lots of product iterations and pivots before landing on something ‘sticky’. What was the path to this current iteration of [Retro](https://www.retro.app/), and does it differ from what your team first set out to build?**

When we left Meta in May 2022, [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk) and I knew that we wanted to eventually build a dedicated app for friends, but we spent the summer exploring a few ideas in different spaces (creator marketplaces, dating, recruiting) to make sure that we were landing on the very best first product for Lone Palm Labs. Then, in September, we looked across all we had explored and decided that, yeah, we were still most passionate about the friends use case. And we felt that among all our ideas, this was the one where the “why now?” question had the most apparent answer: all the incumbents have pivoted hard toward creators and entertainment, crowding out the friends and family use cases that we loved so much.

Once we committed to [Retro](https://www.retro.app/), we’ve iterated a ton with the primary objective of comfort: comfort in sharing photos and videos, comfort in viewing, and comfort in responding to your friends’ content. Because this is a product that we first and foremost wanted for ourselves, we were able to decide, test, and evaluate really quickly because it was clear when something felt right. And if we were on the fence, the feedback from a small group of friends and family gave a sense of where to go next. All that said, the final system that we’ve landed on - a friends-only audience, with retroactive sharing from camera roll, content organized by week, private likes, a flexible post-to-see rule - is generally where we started in September. Our work has mostly been refining the cohesiveness and craft behind those key elements.

### **One thing I personally love about [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) is how the design and visual language of the app has a focus on content and respects me as a user — it’s simple, refined, and not condescending. In contrast so many photo sharing apps feel specifically targeted at teenagers with every piece of it gamified for growth and attention. Was this an intentional decision and how do you find the right product balance between attention and a calm experience?**

I think one of the most important things for any team is to build something that’s authentic to you. Even outside of the issues that come with building a social product for a teenage audience, we as a founding team are not teenagers, so we’re not building for teenagers. We personally like apps that feel calm, comfortable, and enriching with each use, so that’s why we’re building one.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F6a16b629-e3a3-472a-b7e2-5b808a0ed5d8.png?alt=media&token=679b7bd7-bb46-4b6d-ae7e-f6ccd2eb8de4","id":"6a16b629-e3a3-472a-b7e2-5b808a0ed5d8","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview01.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F0b75597d-ad81-4a26-a3c9-418d0e706dbb.png?alt=media&token=c8744a35-2abd-4c6a-a11e-4c1f6153d30e","id":"0b75597d-ad81-4a26-a3c9-418d0e706dbb","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview02.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F57260ff7-253f-43d5-85bd-d0c2d601a0f0.png?alt=media&token=dff30714-0c10-4e67-8dbf-1e8b53aee491","id":"57260ff7-253f-43d5-85bd-d0c2d601a0f0","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview03.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F08905a50-f541-4bbe-9090-56f5c7eac761.png?alt=media&token=37447594-95bc-485b-a8ce-a898ef6e87b6","id":"08905a50-f541-4bbe-9090-56f5c7eac761","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview04.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2Fd9437e18-ed9b-4aad-b12c-a0e38105886d.png?alt=media&token=1fe14211-48b5-46a4-add4-cd180821163f","id":"d9437e18-ed9b-4aad-b12c-a0e38105886d","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview05.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FTQjPf6lvpfVvCc9WDfSu%2F704eaa53-7ef8-4a95-8c97-ab08f33bb445.png?alt=media&token=b292d34e-35a8-4092-8580-664c8ed99025","id":"704eaa53-7ef8-4a95-8c97-ab08f33bb445","width":1170,"height":2532,"filename":"Preview06.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

We were very intentional in building an app that respected the user’s narrow intention to catch up with friends and family. Early on, we talked a lot about what makes a behavior a habit that you regret versus a ritual that you feel good about, and at every fork in the road, we’ve made the decision to go the route that (we hope!) makes you feel good when you both open and close [Retro](https://www.retro.app/).

It is an interesting question though: in 2023, can an a new app succeed without either gamification and the ability to seed content from commercially-driven creators? It’s a long shot, but we think so. We’ll see!

### **Congrats on launch day today — I know you’ll probably be responding to feedback for the next little bit, but is there anything exciting on the roadmap you can share for what’s next at [Retro](https://www.retro.app/)?**

Tons. But I think we’re most excited about [Retro](https://www.retro.app/) for Android, a unique take on private messaging, and sharable recaps that you can export to other platforms like Instagram. We’re also very into print photography, but more on that later.

Give us a shout at **hello@retro.app** if you have any feedback, questions, or ideas. We love to hear from you.

[Nathan](https://read.cv/nsharp) & [Ryan](https://read.cv/ryanolsonk)

Interview with Nathan Sharp and Ryan Olson

An unexpected perk of creating the CV newsletter has been all the fantastic replies we get from our readers. A couple months ago we featured the work of [Adam Eastburn](https://read.cv/adameastburn), a designer and illustrator based in Lehi, Utah. Adam replied to the newsletter with a serendipitous thank you, and proposal to collaborate sometime. The timing couldn't have been better and we've since been working together on product and brand illustrations, stickers, as well as the long awaited CV tote bag. As the year comes to a close we thought it'd be a perfect time to sit down with Adam and get some of his thoughts on working with us, the current state of design, and show off some of the amazing work he has made for us.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2F48074384-9917-4209-86ed-f4f7f737ab3d.png?alt=media&token=347e8b54-4279-40c9-aece-a643dcdcbd66","id":"48074384-9917-4209-86ed-f4f7f737ab3d","width":1442,"height":484,"filename":"email.png","type":"image/png","caption":"First email correspondance with Adam","border":true}]}
```

---

**Hey Adam, paint us a picture of where you're at physically and mentally right now—**

I'm doing an interview for [read.cv](http://read.cv/), so this year is wrapping up real swell. Physically seated at my WFH desk.\
\
**How did you first get into design and illustration, and how did you first build a roster of clients?**

I've always liked to draw. I love comics and animation. In university, I think it was more about just wanting to vibe with a crowd though, and the kids in the illustration program at that time weren't my vibe, lol. The design program reeked with coolness that I liked, so I studied type and failed a ton of classes, but still enjoyed it. I've been into both ever since.

At first I found clients on all the job boards of the internet. That yielded some interesting results. I also hit up friends and family, and they were very kind to find me opportunities. If I went back and did it again, I wouldn't have built a shiny resume and taken all the time to apply. Instead I would've starved myself and sunk into the work deeper, and then just done a better job posting it online everywhere. That's worked better moving forward, at least for freelance. Let the right job find you instead of fitting a mold. When you're starting out though, any experience is valuable.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2Fd7a8bf42-a416-4f80-9879-81134c78b97b.jpg?alt=media&token=e62e37d7-0155-4e5c-b75b-63cfdacee9d0","id":"d7a8bf42-a416-4f80-9879-81134c78b97b","width":1774,"height":698,"filename":"cafe-scene.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"Illustration for Read.cv by Adam Eastburn","border":false}]}
```

**How do you feel about [Corporate Memphis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Memphis)? Is it something to avoid, or is its homogeneity actually its key to success?**

Hmmm, ya. Trends happen. There's no stopping that. I've made colonies of flat/vector people. If you can afford to get hand drawn illos for your brand, do it. Invest in it. Not to say that every brand needs handmade illos. Maybe generic, obvious, flat people fits you and your audience more? I dunno.

I believe people respond to this stuff though, even if it might feel like an unnecessary aspect to focus on for a business's brand. People are smarter and can recognize stock illos, or when they look too generic and repetitive. It's so appealing when a brand really has a voice of its own. That transparency and authenticity is always being pushed for more. So, I think that means not summoning up another village of ambiguous, vector people. Each little vector villager should have a soul and a backstory now, lol. Anyways, that's my rant.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2Fcb09de26-b652-4c2e-88b2-acd1aaa6f74e.jpg?alt=media&token=b7aee57d-f2c3-4a96-97f8-4bb11b04782d","id":"cb09de26-b652-4c2e-88b2-acd1aaa6f74e","width":1600,"height":1600,"filename":"product-illos.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"Illustrations for Read.cv by Adam Eastburn","border":false}]}
```

**Expanding on that a bit, how do you know when to push a client to do something more daring versus playing it safe?**

As the hired creative I'm always pushing for the more daring and bigger option, because it's more interesting for me to create. Ultimately, I'll try to take the time to discuss and understand and educate, so that the final decision feels mutual.

The daring idea is exciting and inspiring, but I like to think that all of those new ideas for a brand can also feel informed, that there's an understandable structure behind their use and existence. Illustration can feel a little less informed for me than making decisions for a logo or type, it comes more organically to me.

I think it helps people to know *why* something works though, a reason why an illustration fits their brand. That way it's not just "artist magic", it's functional and purposeful. I have plenty of thoughts about art and design always needing to be "functional", but anyways. When working with a client, make the daring decision together, have a good reason for it.

Once the contract ends, it's up to the client to get behind it and keep things working for their brand. I like to make sure that that can happen too, and so we'll talk over brand guidelines together. That helps ensure that the client feels confident with that daring decision in the future. I also like what I draw and I want it to look good after the contract has ended, so it helps with that too.

**What was the process like developing the illustrations for [read.cv](http://read.cv/)?**

I hopped on [read.cv](http://read.cv/) early last year and instantly loved the aesthetic and focus. It put me at ease. At some point one of my projects was featured on a [read.cv](http://read.cv/) newsletter, which was a joy. I sent a msg to the team and thanked them. We eventually connected up and I met Andy Chung, who immediately sent good vibes. Those vibes coupled with my pre-existing appreciation for [read.cv](http://read.cv/) inspired me to want to make something for them.

The illustration style (that we decided upon) was something I had been working in for a minute, but hadn't found a use case yet. Every time I worked in it, it was very difficult and still is. Like trying to find order in mini chaos. I would just allow my hand to move energetically, but then scrape out some elegance. I really love it. I use brushes from [@TrueGritTexture](https://twitter.com/truegrittexture). Anyways, it felt like this "coffee napkin" hand drawn style worked well with the organized layout of [read.cv](http://read.cv/), and that made me really happy. Creating something original for someone is enjoyable. It feels like giving something a soul or (maybe in a less ethereal sense) like painting a portrait for someone special.

Anyways, the rest is history. It is now immortalized on a tote bag.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2F73c4405e-9b40-4eec-bb5d-8722e548f256.jpg?alt=media&token=6476f00d-f895-4b33-83c2-514386808608","id":"73c4405e-9b40-4eec-bb5d-8722e548f256","width":2016,"height":1512,"filename":"color-tuned.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"Illustration by Adam Eastburn for Read.cv","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2F3ca22157-e7ad-4ee3-ac96-8cc965670562.jpg?alt=media&token=cf6f1d6c-08ac-4515-9d9a-b8a1881c27a2","id":"3ca22157-e7ad-4ee3-ac96-8cc965670562","width":2016,"height":1512,"filename":"IMG_6084.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"Caption by Jonah Foss","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FpAxv8dtLg8t5fnYWVW6a%2F535370fa-98c4-4c9e-b6f7-b8349121b624.jpg?alt=media&token=c69e3115-4a3e-40db-9f72-68cd1b82399b","id":"535370fa-98c4-4c9e-b6f7-b8349121b624","width":2016,"height":1512,"filename":"IMG_6047.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"Tote sighting in Oakland, CA","border":false}]}
```

**As someone who has a full-time job and two kids, what do you look for in a freelance client or side project given your limited time?**

I like my kids, I want to spend time with them. I want to be a good impact on their lives. At the same time, I'm fulfilled by what I can create and happy to make money on those creations (meaning my art, not my children). When done at the right pace, both of those can rejuvenate and give more life to the other. I think the Vin Deeez would agree that family is most important.

Since I have a full-time job, I want my freelance work to be fun. That's it. I want to be excited about it. I see it as a paid hobby basically. It's good for me, but there's less and less time in the day for that stuff. If that hobby encroaches too much on the other things, I don't like it (unless it's insanely fun).

Finding clients and work isn't too hard, but finding the right clients you want to work with can be hard. There's plenty of work that people want done and they'll pay for it, but I like to build relationships and feel like I am the person that someone needs to work with and vice versa.\
\
**What have you been getting up to outside of work?**

When I'm not working, I'm thinking of other creative endeavors or playing with kids. I try to go outside, but I love YouTube too much. I'm working on an animated short and a few other things.\
\
**Who are some other illustrators you think are doing great work right now?**

Oooo gosh, so many come to mind... *sneaks over to Pinterest*, hmm yes, I know so many. [@JamesNoellert](https://www.instagram.com/jamesnoellert), so hot right now. [@petersteineck](https://www.instagram.com/petersteineck) and [@michaelvanswear](https://www.instagram.com/michaelvanswear) over at [@hellavisiontv](https://www.instagram.com/hellavisiontelevision). [@studiojarvis](https://www.instagram.com/jamesjarvis/), I'm digging all the 3d work lately.

Ok, now I'll go full fanboy. Anything that [@NicolasMenard](https://www.instagram.com/nicolasmenard/), [@MrJohnnyKelly](https://www.instagram.com/mrjohnnykelly/), or [@kevindart](https://www.instagram.com/kevinzilla2000) make or direct - I eat that up immediately. I'm like Homer, banished to donut hell, “More.” I would make copies and buy coffees just to work under these people. So talented.

**What are you listening to these days?**

I like a good horror podcast. Not so much the true crime stuff, but the ghost-y stuff. "Spooked" and also "Radio Rental" are two recent ones. Other than that, maybe Death Grips? Come "blend" with me on Spotify.\
\
**Anything you'd like to promote or plug?**

[read.cv](http://read.cv/)!

All my product and design fam at [@Divvy\_HQ](https://twitter.com/DivvyHQ)!

Interview with Adam Eastburn

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2Fa9dd20d4-f58f-409f-ae06-30e963340f32.jpg?alt=media&token=2b7205f2-c8f1-4528-a73c-6ed941642e20","id":"a9dd20d4-f58f-409f-ae06-30e963340f32","width":2400,"height":1260,"filename":"og-image.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

[Scott Savarie](https://read.cv/scott) is a designer, engineer, and partner at [Logic + Rhythm](https://logicandrhythm.com). He's also a day 1 supporter of [Read.cv](https://read.cv) and good friend of ours. Today we sat down to ask him a few questions about his background in design, how [L+R](https://logicandrhythm.com) came about, and the [exciting launch](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/current-7) of their new tool for keeping design teams in sync, [Current](https://current.so).

---

### **Hey Scott, who are you and where are you in the world right now?**

Yo! I’m a designer and recently moved from Berlin to San Francisco (oddly enough for the second time in my life).

### **Can you tell us a bit about how you got into design?**

I feel like this is a cliché by now, but it was through playing in bands and being involved in the music scene when I was growing up. We’d make our own posters for shows, album art for tapes, CDs, 7 inches, and LPs, and graphics for t-shirts. Myspace was huge back then, and you could theme your profile—that was kind of my introduction to HTML and CSS. I also got really into photography during that time and took a ton of concert photos. I remember in high school I figured out how to make a website using Adobe Flash to show off my photographs.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F954f902b-9f1b-4c6b-92c3-1328b8cdbc89.jpg?alt=media&token=a3eba111-54e5-484f-a179-e5849dd66eb6","id":"954f902b-9f1b-4c6b-92c3-1328b8cdbc89","width":1112,"height":1116,"filename":"scott-1.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F3d6eca41-cbdf-400e-841a-2e857e1ab463.jpg?alt=media&token=965568f8-025d-4d47-86d6-cf4dafc0b616","id":"3d6eca41-cbdf-400e-841a-2e857e1ab463","width":1112,"height":1672,"filename":"scott-2.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2Fd7b85ff0-169a-49c8-b9b6-c93599a2035d.jpg?alt=media&token=d7ab8437-8cd2-410a-ab8d-f0cb1bd8590a","id":"d7b85ff0-169a-49c8-b9b6-c93599a2035d","width":1112,"height":1104,"filename":"scott-3.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2Fb9b4a171-4196-49a4-ab0c-d7705e3e36f3.jpg?alt=media&token=c370ee93-857f-47b0-aa03-214c46864c77","id":"b9b4a171-4196-49a4-ab0c-d7705e3e36f3","width":1112,"height":740,"filename":"scott-4.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2Ff9e88499-997e-4fdc-aff4-e0a705b42921.jpg?alt=media&token=14db6006-dd9d-41ef-a57c-733c5d2953c6","id":"f9e88499-997e-4fdc-aff4-e0a705b42921","width":1112,"height":1724,"filename":"scott-5.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

### **You recently moved back to San Francisco after working in Berlin for several years. Have you noticed a cultural shift in the way work is approached in the two cities?**

Honestly, not really.

I think I would’ve had a different answer in my first year or two of living there, but after 10ish years you notice there are actually way more similarities than differences. Maybe one thing is I feel like Americans tend to glorify “hustle culture”, whereas ideas like a 4 day work week don’t even sound “radical” in many European countries. I’ve heard raising money is way harder in Berlin (or other big EU cities) than here, but I’ve never done it myself.

### **You’ve worked in house at both large design agencies, software companies, and now run your own product design studio, [Logic + Rhythm](https://logicandrhythm.com). L+R dabbles in both client design work, in-house projects like Current, and even venture capital. Can you tell us a bit about what type of work you’re most drawn to, and how L+R manages so many different streams of work?**

I think the variety I got in my first few years from working at a bunch of different types of places informed what kind of company I wanted [L+R](https://logicandrhythm.com) to be (which luckily lined up with how [Vlad](https://read.cv/v)—my business partner—was thinking about things as well).

Agency work can sometime be thrashy, but the variety is nice. Working in-house at a growing startup is super exciting, but a few wrong decisions can make it fall apart very fast. Big places (like Meta, where we worked together) are awesome for getting to work along side super talented people and go very deep on problem, but the trade-off there is the surface area you work on is super narrow.

Personally my favorite environment was always something smaller, with a tight group of people. Working on side projects with friends, the first few years in a startup (before the like…“hyper-growth” phase), or a secret project at a huge company where you’re left alone for a few months. When we started [L+R](https://logicandrhythm.com) we decided to focus exclusively on early-stage companies. We set up our pricing to reflect working with a team of people over a longer period of time rather than putting a price tag on a specific deliverable. What we like about this model is we’re usually working directly with founders, it’s early enough that everyone is excited and energized about what we’re building, and we don’t commit ourselves upfront to some project definition that we can’t pivot away from. It’s basically a blend of working in-house and agency style.

In terms of how we manage the three different verticals of the company—[Vlad](https://read.cv/v) and one of our designers, [Payam](https://read.cv/payam), have taken over more of the day-to-day on the studio side. The VC side is all [Vlad](https://read.cv/v), but doesn’t take up a huge amount of his time, especially not this year (fun fact: Read.cv was our first investment). And I, along with a few engineers, am mostly focused on [Current](https://current.so). We also hired someone last year (s/o [Rachel](https://read.cv/rachel_robbins)!) to help us with all things operations—that’s been huge for allowing us to focus on these three different areas.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F33615cf6-13fa-4849-8a25-e4e6b812f681.jpg?alt=media&token=491ce64b-f9c0-4748-9edf-c53320e5f061","id":"33615cf6-13fa-4849-8a25-e4e6b812f681","width":1620,"height":1072,"filename":"team-1.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F84f3c4b0-7d0c-44c2-9995-c2e0352ea403.jpg?alt=media&token=95697b1f-7c31-478b-baf6-bbeab0eb0210","id":"84f3c4b0-7d0c-44c2-9995-c2e0352ea403","width":1100,"height":1468,"filename":"team-2.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2Fdde37cf6-3f86-4d34-ae2c-fbc4dff933b7.jpg?alt=media&token=632194b5-d403-4302-a9ef-3c73b2766033","id":"dde37cf6-3f86-4d34-ae2c-fbc4dff933b7","width":1620,"height":1008,"filename":"team-3.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false},{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F75b34697-ef40-48fe-af2f-637b7bce7c1a.jpg?alt=media&token=636c9ba2-18f5-4f4c-b251-5cf9397b8347","id":"75b34697-ef40-48fe-af2f-637b7bce7c1a","width":1100,"height":1468,"filename":"team-4.jpg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

### **What advice would you give aspiring product designers in choosing where to work and what to work on?**

I think it’s good to have variety in the first few years in your career.

Find a smaller team where you might have to do stuff that’s not *only* product design. Try to work on stuff that doesn’t have a design system in place. Learn other tools that make you stand out. Prioritize improving your visual design skills. I’ve seen it a number of times where product designers join a huge company for their first job and never get the chance to actually ‘design’ anything. There’s already a super comprehensive design system in place, they’re working on very specific feature area, and they never need to leave their comfort zone because there’s a brand designer, or a motion designer, or a sound designer, or a UX writer for that specific task.

I’m not saying you should aspire to be a generalist, but it’s useful to have a broad set of skills before going deep in a specific area!

### **How did the idea for Current come about and when did you decide to start work on it?**

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F7f2c7e61-bcc4-42a0-bb08-3c2be550276a.jpg?alt=media&token=5ee39fdf-2a95-46ca-acae-5573e72b582c","id":"7f2c7e61-bcc4-42a0-bb08-3c2be550276a","width":1500,"height":1125,"filename":"current.jpeg","type":"image/jpeg","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

When [Vlad](https://read.cv/v) and I (and you 😉) worked at Facebook‚ there was an internal tool called Pixelcloud where designers would share images and videos of what they were working on. I loved it because you could go find these crazy ideas that other super talented designers worked on, some which never made it out of a concept phase. You’d also see people working on similar ideas, which you could bring into what you were working on, or discover whole new initiatives that were being worked on which you didn’t know about. I think everyone who’s worked there misses that tool after they leave. Wake was around for bit which basically replicated it, but ended up shutting down a few years ago.

[Vlad](https://read.cv/v) and I always wanted to diversify [L+R](https://logicandrhythm.com) by doing our own products, and in January 2022 it felt like the right time. There were no other apps doing something similar at the time and the tooling landscape had shifted dramatically to the browser, which unlocked a lot of cool new workflows.

After about a year and a half, [Current](https://current.so) is resembling Pixelcloud less and less and starting to evolve into its own thing, which is cool.

### **What have been the biggest challenges with Current that you’ve overcome?**

There’ve been a few!

One big challenge is when you’re building software for other companies to use, there’s a ton of compliance you need to do before anyone at the company can even try your app. It’s almost like a pay-to-play thing. You might need SOC 2, GDPR, HIPPA, ISO-27001, etc. Whatever it is, it’s a journey to get those certifications, and quite expensive! Last August we decided to just put all our effort into becoming SOC 2 Type 2 compliant, which has opened a lot of doors for us. The other is marketing.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FtiSlCFIpvi7j7ggl7G96%2F31538e81-e3b2-4490-abaa-8ffdd8d77f8f.png?alt=media&token=88ae951f-458d-444e-bcda-72b104b29106","id":"31538e81-e3b2-4490-abaa-8ffdd8d77f8f","width":1200,"height":1134,"filename":"posts.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

Neither [Vlad](https://read.cv/v) or I have ever been super active on social media, nor have personalities where posting all the time feels authentic. Getting over that has been a big challenge. Something about tweeting from behind the [Current](https://current.so) account makes me a little less self-conscious though. I’ve been making quick little videos whenever we have a new cool feature to show off and that’s been helping us grow our audience.

Lastly—and this is true for anyone doing a startup I guess—is just being *the* person for every different role. I’m coding, designing, planning marketing launches, getting on sales calls, filling out security questionnaires, making support content, doing user research calls… The context switching is real!

Interview with Scott Savarie

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2Fseungmee-lee%2F5292ec71-31aa-453a-9060-6453b2a16068.png?alt=media&token=a425089a-4aa0-49ce-9522-72b0d8d55dc7","id":"5292ec71-31aa-453a-9060-6453b2a16068","width":2388,"height":1600,"filename":"image.png","type":"image/png","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

This Summer we invited one of our favorite designers and community members, [Seungmee Lee](https://read.cv/seungmee_lee), to collaborate with us on a template for our new [Sites](https://read.cv/sites/about) product. Lucky for us she said yes, and today we’re excited to share her template, [Booklet](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops)! It’s a delightful portfolio template that feels like flipping through colored craft paper.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2Fseungmee-lee%2F1a186a3b-a1b2-4655-a6c6-7947f94844e6.mov?alt=media&token=4eb54ee3-050c-4d52-8d35-667e62b42aa8","id":"1a186a3b-a1b2-4655-a6c6-7947f94844e6","width":852,"height":480,"filename":"booklet-video2.mov","type":"video/quicktime","caption":"","border":false}]}
```

**[Try Booklet here](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops) 💫**

We also took this as opportunity to chat with Seungmee about her background and approach to design and engineering.

---

### **Hey Seungmee! Where in the world are you writing us from right now?**

Hey Andy! Singapore has been my home for 2 years now. I’m enjoying the perk of being a designer, finding jobs in different countries to see and experience more things.

### **Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you first got into design?**

I was a kid fascinated by the first iPhone, and I thought it was because of its hardware design. So I chose industrial design as a major, but I made a switch to interaction design after finishing the degree. Only after making that switch, I realized that it was the interaction design behind iPhone that I was fascinated by. I don’t regret studying industrial design as it built a foundation of my taste and thinking, but it’s just hilarious how I misinterpreted my obsession to iPhone.

### **You’re also a designer who builds their own ideas. Can you tell us how you first learned to code, and would you consider yourself an engineer as well?**

Even when I was studying industrial design, I was constantly frustrated about how static my design is. I can make a paper prototype, 3d print the shape and all, but I couldn’t make it react when I press a button. That’s when I started to learn how to make videos to animate my ideas, and eventually start learning basics, like html and css.

[Framer](https://www.framer.com/) is now a web builder with no-code features, but I started learning it when it was a ‘prototyping tool with code’. I took some classes, and started having some fun building weird ideas. My first prototype without following existing tutorials, was for typing a morse code (I don’t even know how to translate morse code and I’m still not sure why I did that). But the process of figuring out how to detect ‘long press’ versus just a press was a fun challenge. It felt like I now have a freedom to go beyond what’s given from a tool. And I’m still doing the very same thing, building and experimenting those little ideas in my free time.

---

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FvqpbVAuUQVJEszpFE5Rt%2F65da7b57-4311-4874-b89d-8023ac80d048.mp4?alt=media&token=dea1a70a-8746-4fa7-8c0f-b9352d4462c6","id":"65da7b57-4311-4874-b89d-8023ac80d048","width":1280,"height":720,"filename":"gesture_swipe.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"Handzplay, playground for hand gesture interaction","border":false}]}
```

### **I always find something that feels new and innovative in your work that I haven’t seen before. It perfectly bridges the gap between playful experimentation and functional products that other people can use. Can you tell us a bit about your inspiration both inside and outside of software, and also about your process when coming up and refining ideas?**

That’s sweet, thanks!

One thing I often do is finding an analogy from the real world. Sometimes it’s quite literal and visible (like the template I worked on, [Booklet](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops)), and sometimes it’s more of an mental image for myself (for my personal website, [seungmee-lee.com](https://seungmee-lee.com), I took the idea for the structure from an elevator). That really helps to refresh the perspective, thinking about what connects the analogy and the idea that I’m building, and coming up with a little new detail that’s not common but relevant.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FvqpbVAuUQVJEszpFE5Rt%2Fc4e4ade4-9a47-4d3e-88dd-9b8b96596931.mp4?alt=media&token=f13839dc-92c4-4bf8-a8fa-3adf7fd3c7a1","id":"c4e4ade4-9a47-4d3e-88dd-9b8b96596931","width":1580,"height":1080,"filename":"post-98419e1a-ba36-42fd-bb5d-1c518a3a4861.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"seungmee-lee.com","border":true}]}
```

And new technologies and libraries always give new ideas. It’s like expanding your vocabulary for visuals and interactions, so once you learn how to do a certain thing, it stays with you and comes up naturally when it’s relevant. Even for the [Booklet](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops) template, I learned about extracting color when I played around with a library called color.js, and I used it [here to get colors from an album cover](https://posts.cv/seungmee_lee/xWmLs8npwXffA7zQJde8) and I’m using it again!

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2Fseungmee-lee%2Ff684fcdb-0d9d-4c51-9bce-164c1a395345.mov?alt=media&token=60bce348-2e3d-4639-ae94-c164d41ef333","id":"f684fcdb-0d9d-4c51-9bce-164c1a395345","width":1617,"height":1060,"filename":"music-vis.mov","type":"video/quicktime","caption":"Color extraction using color.js","border":false}]}
```

That’s why when I meet designers who’re intimidated by learning and mastering how to code, I always say it’s enough if you learn how to steal things out there, those open source libraries.

In terms of process, when I have some ideas that I’m interested in building, I’ll start prototyping on Framer or with code first, to see how it works (or whether it works). So after seeing that, then I’ll think about how it looks, like layouts and all those. So the actual design comes later, and usually just squeezed into what’s already working. Even for the template I worked on this time, the idea was about extracting colors from your projects to create an abstract pattern, and after building those parts, then I thought about how the information for each project should fit in there. So I didn’t really have any screens or sketches for the template in the beginning.

### **I love the [Booklet](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops) template you created for [Read.cv](http://read.cv/). Can you tell us a bit about the template (maybe design process or who it’s for), and maybe some ideas that had to get thrown out while working on it?**

Initially, I wanted to make something that turns out differently for every individual. Like a personality test that shows who you’re. And one idea was to extract the color from photos and videos of their projects, to form an abstract pattern. Then, everyone will be visualized differently as they have different works. So I built the basic structure, stacking long rectangles with the prominent color from each project. That looked like colored papers stacked together, so I turned it into a concept of a booklet, making interactions to look like flipping papers. I thought the analogy makes sense, as designers used to print and bind their portfolios back then.

```cv
gallery
{"layout":"hscroll","images":[{"src":"https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/maitake-project.appspot.com/o/pages%2Fb0o4HSJWgQRzMWOfLztMQ9sGHS72%2FvqpbVAuUQVJEszpFE5Rt%2Fc9a98bab-aa35-40ec-9a0c-418b4f094a9f.mp4?alt=media&token=272816ed-80b8-40d5-b8af-1a16e4428785","id":"c9a98bab-aa35-40ec-9a0c-418b4f094a9f","width":1920,"height":1080,"filename":"booklet-recording-1080.mp4","type":"video/mp4","caption":"Booklet template by Seungmee Lee, work by Erica Fustero","border":true}]}
```

I tried different profiles from [Read.cv](http://read.cv/) to test and see how websites turn out differently, and it was really cool that these sets of colors somehow show what type of designer they are - some are very vivid, some are quite toned down, and so on. It’d work well for illustrators, graphic, branding, UI designers who have a unique color assigned for each work, so give it a shot! It gets tricky to extract right colors from photos and videos taken from a camera (that’s me).

I still have another template I’m working on, so hopefully you’ll see another one from me soon! I had another idea that I threw away. It was a template that looks like a video player, with a play/pause button, caption for project title, but once you pause, then video turns into a grid of all the projects in that video. But I ended up liking other ideas than this one :)

### **What advice would you have for younger designers who want to create the type of work that you do?**

I’ve talked to some younger designers about that question. I always recommend them to start with fun ideas that they can willingly spend their weekends figuring things out just because it’s fun. You can watch youtubes or take online courses to learn how to code, or you can do a project that might be more meaningful like for side incomes, or to put up on a portfolio. But learning something can be tiring, and it gets hard to sustain if it’s too serious. It’s easier when you’re working on something fun, stupid, or useful only for yourself. Then you’ll just do it because you’re curious how it’d turn out, and later realize that you learned something out of it.

Even these days after I got used to building stuffs, I can feel how unproductive I am if it’s not really fun. I’m doing all those projects after work, so if there’s any pressure (e.g. I need to nail it or I need to prove myself), then it just becomes an overtime work.

So thank you Andy, for letting me work on a [sites.cv](http://sites.cv) template, which was just another fun project I purely enjoyed, carving out those papers and shadows!

Interview with Seungmee Lee

Company blog

We catch up with Dennis Müller, founder of Amie, and have quick conversation with him about his inspirations, team building, and Amie.

This Summer we invited one of our favorite designers and community members, [Seungmee Lee](https://read.cv/seungmee_lee), to collaborate with us on a template for our new [Sites](https://read.cv/sites/about) product. Lucky for us she said yes, and today we’re excited to share her template, [Booklet](https://read.cv/sites/templates/u550vcops)! It’s a delightful portfolio template that feels like flipping through colored craft paper.

We also took this as opportunity to chat with Seungmee about her background and approach to design and engineering.

If you're not already familiar, The Breakfast App is a new app for meeting other creative people over, well, breakfast. It's not dating, not networking, just breakfast. In the interview we chat about their background, how the pair met, and what it was like founding a startup for meeting IRL during a pandemic.

Learn more about Read.cv

A quick page going over what read.cv is, and how it can best be used.

About Us

While most social media incumbents have pivoted into focusing on creators and entertainment, Retro is a beautiful new photo sharing app with a focus on sharing with close friends and family. We sit down with the Retro founders Nathan Sharp and Ryan Olson to learn more about their inspiration for the app and where it's going.

Introducing Pages

A quick product-launch write up about Pages.

We sat down with Adam to get some of his thoughts on working with us as an illustrator, the current state of design, and show off some of the amazing work he has made for us.

Scott Savarie is a designer, engineer, and partner at Logic + Rhythm. Today we sat down to ask him a few questions about his background in design, how L+R came about, and the exciting launch of their new tool for keeping design teams in sync, Current.

We have been huge fans of Amsterdam based designer [Simon Riisnæs Dagfinrud](https://read.cv/srd)'s work for quite some time now, so it was only natural for us to invite him to create a template for [Read.cv Sites](https://read.cv/sites/about). Today Simon is sharing his wonderfully brutal template named after his hometown in Norway, [Ørsta](https://read.cv/sites/templates/bcyp2hlzo). We also took this as a chance to ask him some questions about his background, multidisciplinary design practice, and opening a physical studio space in Amsterdam-Noord.

Read.cv

Writing

Contact